![]() So members of Congress who were working for him couldn't have mistaken him for a random publicist who walked in their door offering to write their speeches. He was also prosecuted as a Nazi agent successfully during this period. joining World War I and killed lots of Americans and lots of other civilians. In World War I, for example, Viereck had been the source of national scandal when it appeared in some pro-German publications he was running at the time that he had advanced knowledge that the Lusitania was going to be sunk, which of course was a precipitating event for the U.S. There is no way that American members of Congress in the Senate who were dealing with him in World War II didn't know that he was a representative of Hitler's government. MADDOW: George Sylvester Viereck was a very high-profile German agent. GROSS: Did I overstate it when I said that the members of Congress who dealt with this German spy knew that he was a spy for Hitler's Germany? And that meant not only softening up any hard feelings we might have toward Germany in the way that we knew Hitler was behaving both in Europe and toward his own people, but also feeling more inclined toward fascism ourselves. And then you get to the sort of next stages, which is that they wanted Americans to think that it wouldn't be so bad if Germany won. And so Germany wanted to make sure that Americans who, in a native way, didn't necessarily want to get involved in another war, felt like getting involved would be hopeless, felt like the Germans were inevitable victors in the war. And there was - I don't think there was a reasonable expectation either way in terms of whether or not Britain was going to survive. By the summer of 1940, Britain was sort of the last man standing in fighting Germany. And so they wanted to make us distrust and dislike and lose support for our allies, particularly Britain. What they wanted in most instrumental terms was for the United States to not enter World War II. ![]() MADDOW: Very good question and one of the things that I think is oddly and sort of disturbingly most relevant to what's happened in our world in recent years. What did Hitler's government want from the congressman? I found it so remarkable, as I'm sure all your listeners did, that there were sitting congressmen and senators in collusion with an agent from Hitler's Germany, somebody who they knew was an agent from Hitler's Germany. GROSS: Well, I hope they get to pick your brain (laughter) for the movie because you know so much. It is - even just hearing you say those words, the words Steven Spielberg associated with something that I'm working on, it's very overwhelming. RACHEL MADDOW: Oh, Terry, thank you so much for having me. And congratulations on the news that Steven Spielberg optioned your podcast for a movie, which makes perfect sense because it's about World War II and it's about antisemitism. Rachel Maddow, welcome back to FRESH AIR. She recently cut back to hosting only Monday nights and special coverage so that she could devote more time to deeply reported longform projects like "Ultra." Yesterday, it was announced that Steven Spielberg's production company optioned the movie rights for "Ultra." Maddow says there's a reason to know this history now because calculated efforts to undermine democracy, foment a coup, spread disinformation, overt actions involving not just a radical band of insurrectionists, but actual serving members of Congress working alongside them, it's terrible, but it's not unprecedented.įor 14 years, Maddow hosted MSNBC's flagship weekday evening show. In 1944, the plots led to the largest sedition trial in U.S. The group opposed America entering World War II. Those congressmen were associated with the America First Committee, a group with many antisemitic leaders. Senate and House of Representatives to launder and spread Nazi propaganda, often at taxpayers' expense. He also colluded with over 20 sitting members of the U.S. These groups worked with an agent from Hitler's government named George Viereck. government by force in the lead up to World War II. My guest, Rachel Maddow, has a new hit podcast series called "Ultra" in which she reports a little-known story about an ultra-right pro-Nazi movement that plotted to overthrow the U.S.
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